Discuss MikeC's answer to: Best Religion

Dear Mike;

What you just posted makes a lot of sense. He had a lot of pressure on him, and it showed. However, he said some things which I look at as Paul, as Saul, had other motivations for his change of heart, and the work he did.

First of all, I see him as a true "believer"/Patriot. He was true to his idea of Judaism, and loyal to Rome. Beneath it all, as I interpret the issues he faced, and the times in which he lived, how was he going to deal with the two forces he faced; Jews, as a recognized culture and ancient religion, the Gentiles who wanted to be a part of this culture?

At the time, around 10 million G-d fearing Gentiles, many who practiced some form of Torah central religion, and 3 million Hebrews, many scattered as he well knew, all over the Empire like busted eggs.

Solution; give the Gentiles what they sought, and identify it as such, but not to shove it down their throats. It worked; the house service for the Nazarenes, where they could have their studies and worship on troubled by our fanatics, and we retain and maintained our way.

It worked! Galileans who also accepted Jesus, as a Rabbi, and Gentiles who may have, but eventually they saw more into the movement then was their at the beginning.

It would take a lot more space than I have here to fully explain what we did, as for supporting the original movement, and how both groups cooperated, where they were not harassed by the "Church" leaders. Saul's work saved us from an over load, and the new movement to follow the way of their contemporaries; to be swallowed up with the main bodies of "true-believers."  As such, we all owe Paul a debt of gratitude for his work, and the sacrifice he made.

Mike, my friend, i hope this helps. What you posted is high grade and I thank you. It may be on your side of the fence, but i like what I see.

Shalom;

Yechiel

First of all, I see him as.

You don't even see Jesus Christ as God for real,  how the hell can you see Paul for real.  YOU CAN'T

It would take a lot more space than I have here to fully explain what we did,

It don't take much space to fully explain what you did, it takes 6 words.  "YOU killed your savior Jesus Christ"

but i like what I see.

Shalom;

Yechiel

Who cares what you see. You don't see the truth anyway. First of all, you don't see you hung your savior on the Cross.

Paul changed what Jesus was all about. Paul applied the religious principals to nonJews that Jesus would not or at least did not do. Paul opened the religion to nonJews and thus should be credited with starting Christianity more than Jesus. Paul had to do it because he needed unlike Christ to win over the people from countries outside of the Jerusalem area. 

Dear Physicalist;

You are right. I think what you just posted supports both Mike's and mine contentions; there was a need for the gentiles to be brought into the new faith. For whatever reason, the ends Mike and I described are at least in part supported by what is written in the Gospels.

The majority of the followers were Jewish (Galilean) with Gentiles who agreed with the message, or at least, the direction the message was going. It was a good start, and we all could have retained some attachment; something like the various Hindu sects have achieved.

But some who wanted power, and also hated the Jewish influence in the sect, managed to make some fundamental changes. To bad; we could have avoided much conflict.

If AC and I had been there that Friday afternoon; he would have sided with the conservatives, and been for the punishment of that new age ragamuffin. I would have been for the love and care he taught, ala Torah, and been opposed to his being treated as he was. But, alas, such was the way things turned out; no continued connection of our sects and faiths, no clemency for one who was seen as a trouble maker for Rome, and for the Judian hierarchy.

Then, of course what Jesus, as a Torah centered Jew preached most against-finger pointing. "Judge not, that you be not judged."

One way to know if someone is a false Christian

Shalom:

Yechiel

Yechiel Paul's theology of the gospel accelerated the separation of the messianic sect of Christians from Judaism, a development contrary to Paul's own intent. He wrote that faith in Christ was alone decisive in salvation for Jews and Gentiles alike, making the schism between the followers of Christ and mainstream Jews inevitable and permanent. I do not believe there was some kind of conspiracy or game plan by Paul with his Jewish brotherhood with the best interest of Jerusalem at heart.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God; or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
—     II Thessalonians 2:3-4



In their ignorance, these Judaizer pastors and congregations are fulfilling prophecy, for the Bible tells us that in the last days, just prior to the coming of Christ, there will be a Temple once again in the earthly city of Jerusalem. There, in that unholy place, the Jews and many other apostates, in defiance of God Almighty, will cheerfully and reverently welcome the "son of perdition," the "man of sin"—i.e. the antichrist, the beast with the number 666. It is inside this rebuilt Temple, the scriptures reveal, that the antichrist shall declare that he is "God" and "above all Gods."

Imagine also the abominable practices which will take place inside this rebuilt Temple, ranging from sexual perversion to astrological ritual (see Ezekiel 8) and blood sacrifices.


In the days of His visitation, our Saviour, Jesus, entered the Temple in Jerusalem. But the religious leaders were not happy to see Him. Christ angrily overthrew the tables of the moneychangers in the Temple and sent them packing. He accused the elders of Zion of having turned what should be the House of God into a "den of thieves!"

Jesus also prophesied to the Samaritan woman he encountered at Jacob’s Well, "Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father...But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth..." (John 4:21, 23).


It has always been the chief desire of Satan’s people—whether it be the apostate Jews, the Freemasons, the Vatican, the Mormons, or the Illuminati to build a Temple to serve as the habitat for their "God." Solomon, Herod, and other ancients sought the same. But, say the scriptures: "Howbeit, the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands."

God mockingly and directly spurned such efforts of the unwise, proclaiming, "Heaven is my throne, and Earth is my foot stool: What house will ye build me, saith the Lord: Or what is the place of my rest?" (Acts 7:49)

To the Greeks who, in the marvelous city of Athens, had built a sumptuous temple and altar to the Deity whom they worshipped in ignorance as "The Unknown God," the Apostle Paul stood on Mars Hill and trumpeted:

"Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious… God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands." (Acts: 17:22,24)

What is one of the first signs that would be Christians have been sucked into some form of Hebrew roots or that they have been deceived into supporting the anti-christs who call themselves Jews? When you hear the word Shalom come out of their mouth, know they have been sucked into this cult.

In the last 15 or 20 years, there has been a "Hebrew roots" movement. If I were to guess I would say this deceptive movement comes from the bellies of the snakes who profess to be the Jews.

The line is .... "The Jews have given us the bible"

The follow up is #2 mutating Christian practices with the concocted religion falsely called Judaism and #1 giving money and such support to those who call themselves Jews.

The Jews gave us the bible? Here this cult is making themselves God.

God (not these false "Jews") gave us the bible.

As for the first contract God gave, he gave it to Moses to pass it along. To the actual Israelites God gave that contract to, they were such mockers, God intended to kill all the Israelites all and start all over from scratch from descendants of Moses.

In the first place, it was not on their own merit that God dealt with them, but by the acts of Abraham, they got to go along for the ride.

No such thing as a Jew existed until hundreds of years after the laws of the Israelites were given to them. The "Jews" never gave the gentiles nor the Israelites anything.

ACTS 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

No Christian owes anything to the Christ hating / denying Blabites.

If you want to repay those who gave us the scriptures, begin burying your money in the ground and after the resurrection, tell Moses, Christ and the apostles where they can dig it up.



Imagine Christians going into synagogues, following the rituals concocted by their Blabites and giving finical support to Christ haters / Christ deniers.

Not one counterfeit "Jew" you will ever know in your life time are the authors of the scriptures, none of these people died on the cross for you. No Christian owes anything to these deceivers nor does any Christian need to follow the doctrines and commandments concocted by their phony Blabites.


We do not owe "Jews" anything. Christianity has NOTHING to do with false Judaism !

JOHN 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

JOHN 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me

JOHN 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

[ THIS IS EVERYONE ON EARTH WHO CLAIMS TO FOLLOW JUDAISM ]

1_CORINTHIANS 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha  = EVERY ONE ON EARTH who claims to follow Judaism.

REVELATION 2:9 ... and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

REVELATION 3:9 I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews and are not, but do lie;

1_JOHN 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.

[ THIS IS EVERYONE ON EARTH WHO CLAIMS TO FOLLOW JUDAISM ]

MATTHEW 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other...

And yet these self professing Christians make themselves bed fellows with the false Jews and cry how they love Christ !

What do these loving, friendly "Jews" really think or say about Christ and Christians when the are in their synagogues and Christians can't hear them?

  ( Is that Jesus Christ is the liar and false prophet who was the servant of Satan by the Jew's Talmud ? }

Dear Mike; I think you may be right. However his intent, Paul's work had the same effect, as the G-d fearing Gentiles, who were not determined to accept all of the Torah, did find a version of the Noahide Covenant in the Nazarene sect. So some of the pressure was taken off of us, at the time.

The gentiles had three objections to converting to Judaism; Kosher, cleanliness laws and I think it was the marriage code.

Anyway, you find the same three items mentioned in the Gospels, and I think it could be more than a coincidence. Anyway, a wonder chance passed us by, Regardless who was responsible, to bad.

Shalom;

Yechiel

Dear Friends;

You have heard of the "Hebrew Christians"? I think I found a good reason why they cannot be legit; >>>

MATTHEW 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other...<<<

So be true to where G-d placed you, respect what G-d has done with His souls, as to where He choose to place them.

A good Christian, I think, would not object to His Will, as we have seen one or two do here.

My only objection is to the evil they have done to others, here. We are taught to not judge other faiths, because G-d told us as long as a person does not do evil to another, she or he is as good as anyone, Jew or Gentile.

Shalom;

Yechiel