Discuss MikeC's answer to: Best Religion

NJOY You are not going to get off this easy. I want to know why you think politics brought about Christianity " I would love you to explain the growth of Christianity for the 300 years prior to Constantine. Explain why all the martyrs and why so many where willing to die for the sake of Christ prior to the expectance of Christianity threw Constantine. The political aspect of the Christian church started because Constantine 300 years later excepted the belief of Christianity and made it an edict for the total of the Roman Empire. I am not interested myself at this time to pursue what your thoughts are on Constantine, as much as I am dying to understand what you know prior to Constantine. Why where the people of that time willing to die for there beliefs. ? Why did Alexandria go down in flames ? Why where the believers in Christ persecuted ? You have made some general statements on here that I believe should be clarified on Christianity and politics. I want to understand your thinking of history prior to Constantine. We are talking about 300 years.

You say we come from vastly different angles. I want to know the source of your angles so as to know why we differ so much in regards to the Christian beliefs and it’s very foundations or it’s roots. I will trim the branches latter.  GBY MikeC.

ac writes: Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, God Almighty, NOT a peasant from Nazareth.

ac, Jesus definately was a poor and simple peasant from Nazareth whose aim was to get the people to understand the secrets of the Torah as He had been given them through His Heavenly Father.  His aim was to enrich the lives of those who had strayed from God's Word, His true meaning.  Jesus wanted the people to get to know that Indwelling that He himself knew so well.  He was a tiny bit like Martin Luther in the fact that he (Jesus) could see that by the actions of his people they were missing the whole truth God had shown to Him.    

MikeC....Christianitycame out of a rebellious nature that was foaminting among the Jews. IF Valentinus had won instead of Constantine, WE today would be singing a different tune.  I don't know if things would be better or worse, but I do know they would be different because the two philosophies were so different.

If all of that ain't politics....i don't know what is.

NJOY: ac, Jesus definately was a poor and simple peasant from Nazareth whose aim was to get the people to understand the secrets of the Torah as He had been given them through His Heavenly Father.

ac, Jesus definately was a poor and simple peasant from Nazareth

Jesus Christ IS DEFINITELY God, the Word Of God

John 1:1,2 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God..

Scripture says, In the beginning was the Word" and "the Word was with God." God is a spirit. (In the beginning was the Word)  everything that is came from within Him.

Then its says "and the Word (that was with God) was God." Jesus is God, an exact reproduction of God Himself.

John 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.


The same is Jesus. He is the same as God! The same was with God in the beginning! This is why we can say that Jesus is God. He is God the Father, and God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. He is simply God in the Son.  Jesus is an exact reproduction of God Himself. He is God (equal with God) only He is in the position of a Son! God the Father did everything for and through His Son!

1. In the beginning was the Word (God ), and the Word (Jesus) was with God, and the Word (Jesus) was God.

2. The same (Jesus) was in the beginning with God.

ac, Jesus  whose aim was to get the people to understand the secrets of the Torah as He had been given them through His Heavenly Father.

JESUS AIM WAS,

In John vs 1 God the Word is Jesus and was made flesh  WHOSE AIM  WAS so that He could die on the cross for mankind sin (his very own creation).

In the book of Revelation chapter 19 starting in vs 13 - And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Njoy comment ,(not just believe AC, but believe wholeheartedly)

Wholeheartedly means to believe everything Jesus Christ said in scripture IS the word of God. Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, God Almighty.

Wholeheartedly  means, TO DOUBT NOTHING JESUS CHRIST SAID".

Wholeheartedly  means, TO QUESTION NOTHING JESUS SAID.


"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

"for out of the abundance of the heart your mouth speaketh" (v. 45). We CAN judge the heart by what proceeds from the mouth. The words spoken are the fruit of the state of  your heart.

 What is in your heart (WHAT YOU BELIEVE) your mouth speaketh" The words you speak are the fruit of the state of  your heart.

Dear Mike;

A question; the finger pointing between Christian sects-how much is "spiritual", and how much is "political".

Also, where is the line drawn? I ask because in our dealing with Basic Christianity today, there is a different attitude for the most part from most, than when I was a child, even. More positive. But, and a big "but", what moduate the way we see each other, when is the friendship and fight or flee instincks involved?

I ask this because I see where there is much needless pain, due to mis-clues and out-right prejudice. I am looking for a way to express the fact that when we come to our faiths, internal, when it comes to our environment or defence, communal. 

There are many who are searching for answers to these and other questions. Politics, in one form, is the search for truth and solutioins. Religion, in many forms, is the same. We, the searchers, can choose which way to go, but is it a pure way?

I hope I did not confuse the issue to much, but here, I am searching for answers, myself. Sometimes, the answer can only be found with another.

Shalom;

Yechiel

Anonymous Comment
NJOY: ac, Jesus definitely was a poor and simple peasant from Nazareth whose aim was to get the people to understand the secrets of the Torah as He had been given them through His Heavenly Father.
 
 
ac, Jesus definitely was a poor and simple peasant from Nazareth
 
Jesus Christ IS DEFINITELY God, the Word Of God
ac?  did you think i said Christ was not God?  Christ and God are one and we are one with them/Him.  I said, "Jesus was a peasant from Nazareth."  That is true, but Jesus preached about the Indwelling Holy Spirit of God, which he was and which we also could have, if we would accept the fact.  I have accepted that fact, through the Grace of God.  God's Holy Indwelling Spirit abides in me.  I call it Christ's Presence.  Yechiel has it too, and he calls it the Indwelling, because that is what he was taught to call it.  The Jews(enlightened) had it before the Christians, because Jesus had it and he was an enlightened Jew. 
John 1:1,2 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God..
 
Scripture says, In the beginning was the Word" and "the Word was with God." God is a spirit. (In the beginning was the Word) everything that is came from within Him.
 
Then its says "and the Word (that was with God) was God." Jesus is God, an exact reproduction of God Himself.
 ac?  where do you get the idea that I do not believe all you have quoted here????John 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.


The same is Jesus. He is the same as God! The same was with God in the beginning! This is why we can say that Jesus is God. He is God the Father, and God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. He is simply God in the Son. Jesus is an exact reproduction of God Himself. He is God (equal with God) only He is in the position of a Son! God the Father did everything for and through His Son!ac, there is no need to shout this at me.  I do not disagree with you, only I carry it further because CHRIST has shown me that I too am a child of God.  I am good, as He was good.  Christ rose from the cross for me, I understand that AC.  Jesus died, but Christ rose.
 
1. In the beginning was the Word (God ), and the Word (Jesus) was with God, and the Word (Jesus) was God.
 
2. The same (Jesus) was in the beginning with God. but ac, i believe we were all there "in the beginning"    I believe, "in the beginning" the Creator and the Created were one, and something separated us (Eve's decision? the Big Bang? Adam's agreeing to eat of the tree?) I don't know for sure what separated us from our Creator, but I believe that is what our life's goal is: To become ONE with God once more.
 

ac, Jesus whose aim was to get the people to understand the secrets of the Torah as He had been given them through His Heavenly Father.
 
JESUS AIM WAS,
In John vs 1 God the Word is Jesus and was made flesh WHOSE AIM WAS so that He could die on the cross for mankind sin (his very own creation). ac?  to me, the dying on the cross demonstrated to all that in order to find Christ within, we must crucify our own ego.  Our selfish side.  We must humble our self before the Lord and kill that part of our psyche that is egotistical...and that because we are human...we must do this constantly.  When we make the simplest decision, are we acting out of pride and prejudice...or...sincere and unconditional love.  We make decisions quickly and forget that many of them are made out of the ego and not the heart/soul/mind of Christ.
 
In the book of Revelation chapter 19 starting in vs 13 - And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.
 
Njoy comment ,(not just believe AC, but believe wholeheartedly)
 
 
Wholeheartedly means to believe everything Jesus Christ said in scripture IS the word of God. Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, God Almighty.
ac. I believe the scribes/followers/disciples who tell us through scripture what Jesus spoke were telling us the truth of His words, but they did so from hearsay and memory.  We have very few of His actual words...that doesn't mean that what we have from the New Testament is incorrect...it just means that they had to be embellished somewhat.  They were written by people who never knew Him, people who, like John, were born after the His Crucifixion.  They(those writers) had an agenda then, (which I do not disagree with) just as any writer does.  They promoted the idea of Christianity because they felt strongly about it, and rightly so.  They died for it, which shows how much the person of Jesus The Christ meant to them.  I applaud them for what they did.  Without their writing we would not have the story of the Virgin Birth and other influential narratives.  But the actual fact is:  Jesus The Christ left no writings of His own.  And, there are a few of his actual saying in the Gospel of Thomas.  That's all.  It's just history.  No shame in learning history AC.
 
Wholeheartedly means, TO DOUBT NOTHING JESUS CHRIST SAID".
 
Wholeheartedly means, TO QUESTION NOTHING JESUS SAID. 
ac, I believe we should question everything, and I believe that is God's wish...otherwise we do not actually believe what we believe ourselves.  If we simply accept everything without question, we will be following the "wrong" God as you are so fond of saying that I follow.  Without questioning, we are definitely are all "like sheep who have gone astray."
I do believe the words of Christ as written in the New Testament.  But the reason I believe them is because I have taken them into my heart and mind and soul and experienced them for myself...not because they are written down.  Having experienced the Holy Spirit for myself is why I believe in it.  I'd like to think that is true for you as well.njoy


"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).


"for out of the abundance of the heart your mouth speaketh" (v. 45). We CAN judge the heart by what proceeds from the mouth. The words spoken are the fruit of the state of your heart.
 
What is in your heart (WHAT YOU BELIEVE) your mouth speaketh" The words you speak are the fruit of the state of your heart.this I believe as well ac.

Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Mike;

I hope I did not confuse the issue to much, but here, I am searching for answers, myself. Sometimes, the answer can only be found with another.

Shalom;

Yechiel

Sounds like a loaded question to Mike C, trying to confuse.

You already know We Christian's who believe in Jesus Christ know and have faith that the Kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom through Jesus Christ, we know Jesus Christ is not a religion.

Yechiel, you know in your heart you are not searching for  answers as to "Which way is a pure way". You believe you already have the answer to,.."the pure way" You believe you are already Gods chosen.

You know you never have agreed with anyone who believes in Jesus Christ when they tell you "what God says" in scripture as to," which way to go,a pure way"  You know what God says, Go to Christ, believe in Jesus Christ to be saved" AND you know you have never and are not ever going to change your mind or believe when you ask a another Believer in Jesus Christ.,.. "which way to go, is a pure way" and he tells you what God says,."Go to Christ, believe in Jesus Christ to be saved"

You know you will accuse the believer you asked of it being his way.  Even though the believer only answered your question and only told you what God said in scripture"which way to go, is a pure way"  You will still (as you do) accuse the believer of it being the believers way.

You know in your heart Mike C believes in Jesus Christ. YET you ask him that question .."I hope I did not confuse the issue to much, but here, I am searching for answers, myself. Sometimes, the answer can only be found with another"   

Knowing full well you were NOT searching for answers  that can only be found with another Christian like Mike or me who believes in Jesus Christ is the pure way according to Gods word in scripture, and we have faith that it is.  

Sounds like a loaded question to me. Why do you ask someone who believes in Jesus Christ.

People are spirits in the flesh. That is what we are! When we try (or test) the spirit of another, we are simply finding out whether or not they have God’s Spirit. We are NOT to judge or condemn anyone, we are simply told to decipher whether or not they are saved. Either they have God’s Spirit or they don’t.

AC, if i were to "test" or "try" you, I would say you do not have God's Spirit.  Does that observance on my part make it true?

Njoy. ac where do you get the idea that I do not believe all you have quoted here????John 1:2



ANSWER.  Some of what you believe concerning salvation and Jesus Christ is not in scripture.



ac?  to me, the dying on the cross demonstrated to all that in order to find Christ within, we must crucify our own ego.  Our selfish side.  We must humble our self before the Lord and kill that part of our psyche that is egotistical...and that because we are human...we must do this constantly.  When we make the simplest decision, are we acting out of pride and prejudice...or...sincere and unconditional love.  We make decisions quickly and forget that many of them are made out of the ego and not the heart/soul/mind of Christ.

ac. I believe the scribes/followers/disciples who tell us through scripture what Jesus spoke were telling us the truth of His words, but they did so from hearsay and memory.

I believe the scribes/followers/disciples who tell us through scripture what Jesus spoke were telling us the truth of His words, but they did so from hearsay and memory.  We have very few of His actual words... They were written by people who never knew Him, people who, like John, were born after the His Crucifixion.  But the actual fact is:  Jesus The Christ left no writings of His own. 

I do believe the words of Christ as written in the New Testament.  "But" the reason I believe them is because I




There is Only One True Biblical Jesus, the Rest are Counterfeits

“Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received, or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him” (2nd Corinthians 11:1-4).

There are thousands of religions in this world. My dear friend, salvation is not found in any of them! You don’t find salvation in a religion, you find it in a person—Jesus Christ!!! There are many concepts of Jesus in the minds of people throughout the world, but the true Jesus is only portrayed in God’s Word. Satan has introduced many false Christ's and false bibles and false religions into the world to deceive mankind. We are warned by the Apostle Paul against accepting ANOTHER JESUS.

We Must Test Every Teaching with the Light of God's Word


People are spirits in the flesh. That is what we are!  When we try (or test) the spirit of another, we are simply finding out whether or not they have God’s Spirit. We are NOT to judge or condemn anyone, we are simply told to decipher whether or not they are saved. Either they have God’s Spirit or they don’t.

ac....there is no shame in learning. No shame in studying history. No shame in sharing your views in public. BUT THERE IS SHAME IN NOT ALLOWING YOURSELF OR OTHERS TO DO SO BY Thwarting THEIR EVERY MOVE. Get real AC....get honest for once in your life...