Discuss MikeC's answer to: Best Religion

Which religion should I convert to?

NJOY  You said,  "We, who are their descendants, are not as simple minded"  as Adam and Eve.   I beg to differ with you on this,  I believe we are more simple minded than either Adam or Eve.    All we have today is better toy's and the next generation will have better toy's than us.   Reading books, having a degree,   having the best toy's, that does not make for a more mature experienced person.   Knowing how to live, love, laugh,  communicate with others,  make commitments, stand by them such as marriage and children and family.   To  create,  bring harmony,  have patience and understanding, having people that admire you.   When you can do all these things and bring joy to your life along with others,  That is the  truly educated.     Many generations before us accomplished all of these things better than we do today.   Look at the divorce rate,  child suicides,  rape,  the people with all the money and so called educated that are so unhappy.  You see it everyday in the news and with the people around you.    No NJoy,   I believe we are less experienced in the true meaning of life and more simple minded,  more now than ever.     We live closer today than ever and are more isolated than ever in history.               

Nothing is as it seem's.
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Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Mike;

You said a mouth full! The spark of the god idea, to begin with, was to find the reason for our being.

Ancient humans knew that the sun would rise and set, but, and a big but here, how did it all begain, and how do "I" fit in.

Could not find the answers, then, in them selves,  so they sought them in less accessible areas; heaven became a part of their awareness.

With this discovery, the community became more important, and with the community, each other.

Then, no toys to distract them. Now, toys galore, and do not bother me while I play with mine!

I jumped ahead a bit, but I think most people get the idea. G-d made His presence felt, and it worked for a while.

Now, we have de-personalized Him, each other along with this, our toys, and we are reaping the results.

Solution, to recognize that the L-rd is G-d, we are His beloved, and we have it within us to do great things, not only make fun toys.

If all of humanity would look to our source, We Shall know His presence is still here. Not by shoving ideas down other persons throats, but by sharing what He gave is in action, as well as in idea.

That is why He told us to love one another-right now.

OK. Again, I kind-of jumped ahead, but seek and ye shall find.

GBY and have a great Easter.



jameslee102447 Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Simple mindedness is not relative to times and conditions and cannot be directed or measured to any one generation over another. In the beginning the people were as intellectual then as today when compared to their conditions and surroundings. Within these conditions and surroundings there are those that when being compared to the intellectuals of their time are considered simple minded. Every generation has its intellectuals and simple minded, but this is not the cause or decline of the good things in life, intelligences is, or the lack of. Consider that an intellectual without intelligence is not a happy camper while the simple minded with intelligence is.  And let us all reflect and rememeber what Easter and Passover is about.

 God Bless


Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Jameslee;

Good post. You also put forth why the Talmud is so important to us. Conditins change, not G-d's Torah. So we seek to find how to be the most aware and close to Him, regardless of how the world around us may change.

True, there are some AC's quoted in the Talmud. Freedom of speech is not a  turn of phrase, for us, but part and parsel of our culture. So we practise what we preach. Those who state ideas we cannot or will not accept are over-ruled, and the true Torah way is stated.

Not always a happy camper, but aware who's camping ground we are on.

Happy Easter, Passover, and a good week.



jameslee102447 Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Thanks Yechielshipshon, and I really liked that statement "Not always a happy camper, but aware of who's camping ground we are on.

God Bless


MikeC. My use of the phrase "simple minded" was meant as "unsophisticated"  Because, Adam and Eve, were as totally blank slates (in the beginning).  They didn't even know they were naked.  Where we, are blessed with ancestors who go all the way back to those two. (this is metaphorically speaking of course)   If I remember correctly the question was something about why didn't Adam and Eve follow God's instructions or something like that.  I was trying to say, because they were ignorant of everything, even their own nakedness.   Sometimes this expressing ourselves online tends to get very mixed up.  Can you imagine how thousands of years have affected our Holy Scriptures?  Better to seek within your own heart and mind to find God, it seems to me.


NJOY Keep in mind about nakedness,  Every other creature on earth does not even think of nakedness.  Humans are the only ones.  What is natural is nakedness.  What is unnatural is to cover up nature.   Now,  don't get me wrong here.  I don't beleive we should go around naked.   What I am so ineply trying to convey is,  if we where as every other creature on earth,  we would not care about our natural selfs.  To be aware of our nakendness,   the question would be why ?    Why would we be made aware of such a thing ?   Would it be to make us aware of our own pride,  our self centerdness, our ego  ?   I don't know.  There is a lesson here that takes on ego, envy, lust and much more.    Think about it,  King, Queen, Lords, Dukes, the ultra rich, showing off there dress.  Trying to put to shame all the peasants and underclass.  Is it the control of who and what we are ?  Is it  the disaplin to understand that nothing we wear is as important as the way we conduct ourselfs.  The clothing we wear is only surfice pride.  In the natural order of things,  our nakendness means nothing to God.  We are as every other creature.  It is what we think, how we precieve others along with how we precieve ourselfs that is important to God.  Clothing, or nakedness is only relevant to us.   What is important to God in my opinion is how we precieve others,  no matter the dress.   Adam and Eve  ?   They where never naked, they where as every other creature on earth.  Naked ?  That was never a word,  never a thought,  never a concideration.      Why did we all the sudden consider nakedness ?    Your guess is as good as mine.   All I do know is there was definetly a reason.    GBY  MikeC   

J.R. Dotson

MikeC. NJOY Why did we all the sudden consider nakedness ?    Your guess is as good as mine.   All I do know is there was definetly a reason.    GBY  MikeC  

Satan begins the temptation with a question, "Hath God not said Ye shall no eat of every tree of the garden?" This is the way of Satan to bring into question what God has plainly stated. It is actually bringing God Himself into question. To question God is suggest that God could be wrong, or have some sinister reason for what He says.


Eve's response was to correct Satan's question, by stating that she and Adam could eat of all the trees of the garden except the one tree called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil lest they die.


Satan tells Eve, that God has with held the truth from them and that if she eats the fruit of the tree she would see the truth and she would become like God. The words used in the KJV, "as gods", is better translated "like God". Satan who is the father of lies, then blatantly lies and tells Eve that she would not die!


Satan's attack was outward which appealed to the inward heart of man. God's appeal is first an inward one that when accepted changes the outward character of man.


Eve then allowed herself the be deceived in three areas. First, Eve saw the fruit was good for food, appealing to the flesh and bodily senses. Second, She saw it was pretty, appealing to the emotions, and Third, it appealed to her mind and intellect, in that she wanted to be wise.


Eve's failure was a series of multiple errors. She refused to simply accept God at His Word. She added to and subtracted from it. She doubted God, opening the door to the Devil's appeal to the flesh and her spiritual pride. She succumbed and sinned and in doing so plunged all the world thereafter into sin.


After Adam sinned, both their eyes were opened and they saw themselves naked and ashamed. The had succumbed to temptation, and instead of being elevated to the status of a god, they had been plunged down into the depths of destruction. What a awful realization it must have been. What emptiness and depths of shame they must have felt.


They immediately sought to cover their nakedness and sewed fig leaves together into an apron. There was no way to hide or undo their sin. The leaves sewn together were a poor and useless substitute for the purity they had before they sinned.


"In effect, of course as soon as one begins to deny God's Word or to question His sovereign goodness, he is really setting himself up as his own god. He is deciding for himself the standards of truth and righteousness."


Adam and Eve, having sinned had broken intimate fellowship with God. The effects of sin is always separation from God. This does not mean that God does not love us, but it means God by His nature must be separated from sin.


The sin that plunged mankind into sin was not murder or some other gross sin, but a simple act of eating the fruit of a prohibited tree. The sin was disobedience. The tree was placed there to define good and evil. On all the earth there was only one source of temptation, that one tree. Adam and Eve, in reality did already know what was right and wrong. It was wrong to eat the fruit of that one tree. That had to exercise trust in God; God said it was forbidden and thus they had to accept that it was.

Anonymous Comment

Adam and Eve, must have been greatly repentant of their deeds which had brought sin into the world. God in his mercy made provision for them made them coats of animal skins for them to wear. Earlier they had made themselves fig leaves to hide their nakedness, however their efforts were lacking.

       The word "covering" also means "atonement". Most see this act of God as being more than just providing clothes, but as an act of God's Grace in providing atonement from sin as well. They responded in their hearts to God and trusted Him, God in turn accepted their faith and saved them.

       There was shedding of blood, as a picture of the coming of Christ and His shedding His blood to atone for the sins of all mankind. Animals were killed and their skins used for a "covering" for man.

 God drove Adam and Eve from this special place prepared for them and sent them into a harsh world to hack out a living by the sweat of their brow. The would no longer have be able to take of the fruit of the tree of life that grew in the garden. The result of sin was death. God had warned them it would be so. Now cut off from the source of everlasting life they face a sure and certain future death.

        God placed Cherubims with flaming swords to protect the entrance into the Garden and Adam and Eve never again returned to it.

       Man's death was spiritual as well as physical. When he sinned he died spiritually being cut off from the source of life, who is God. In time sin works its way and all men eventually die. Romans 6:23, says, "The wages of sin is death...". Man is given time; time to live experience life and also to seek God and be saved.

     The record of the Fall of Man, the picture looks bleak. But we have the promise of God, in Genesis 3:15, man had forsaken God, but God had not forsaken man. The Savior was promised and he would come and all that would by faith accept God's provision for atonement would not be taken in the "second" death, that being eternal separation from God in Hell's fires. The message is one of man's failure and God's demonstrated mercy to save the sinner gone astray.


Thanks   JR & Anonymous for your response.  Smile

Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Friends;

Not to put a damper on this heated discussioinEmbarassed but clothing would not be important, if there was not a need for it.

In many parts of the world, nudity is not even thought of as something to worry one with. These are warm areas of the earth, where the people pretty much have what they need. In less abundant areas, or cooler lands, clothing is important. Modesty also is important, and not limited to clothing, but also regards speech and behavior.

We look at great paitings and see persons in them with no clothes, and the work is admire without going out of sync over it. Someone strips on main street, Oh, oh!!!

I see this as it is nude in the proper place, as revieling my thoughts, nacked in the improber place, as exhibitionest of what you have.

So you hit it right, when you mentioned other items besides the body. The Atonement is both, a covering for the sin, and a revelation of the compassioin of G-d. As you know, if you did not have an animal to bring, or buy, a handfull of grain would suffice.

So stay warm, comfortable and in style, and have a good day.



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