Discuss Faith's answer to: Best Religion

Which religion should I convert to?

 

Hi All ... A few days back someone ... AN? made a comment about a quote from the bible which brings up a really important issue... that of UNDERSTANDING.
 
The quote was ~ I AM The ONE and The Way. ~
OK.. sounds good.. but WHAT does Jesus actually mean here???
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People typically jump at the first and obvious meaning... and stop there... failing to contemplate more deeply. How many bother to ask.... Are we hearing from our own LIMITED human state ? .. OR are we "hearing" from Jesus' unique, Infinite and Divine State?
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Is it possible ... that Jesus' words are "couched" in more mystical meanings that are not immediately apparent, and actually remain hidden until we are ready to evolve spiritually? Answer: Yes.. it is.
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That people are typically unaware of the different LEVELS that Jesus spoke from is why there is so much disagreement with the bible... and other scripture as well.
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It is said that there is a * truth for the morning, * a truth for the afternoon, * and also a truth for the evening.
 
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On that note, AN says: 1. The NAM says that Jesus is only one of many ways to God. But Jesus said He was the only way to God.

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FR: Right... and WHO/What IS Jesus??? Who/What is THE ONE that Jesus is referencing here?
Can "God"/ Formless Divine Consciousness ONLY take on one physical form? Are you going to stop "God"... who IS Jesus, and Jesus.. who IS "God" ... from manifesting as more than one physical form? Good luck on that.

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Yes.. Jesus IS That Infinite Divine ONE...BUT That Divine ONE is not limited to the form of Jesus. So when AN says "Jesus is the ONE and the Way"... they are correct BUT... they are coming from the *truth of the morning. They stop at "God's" physical manifest form AS Jesus only... and, for the time being, can go no further.
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Such people can only identify with their own *** physical sense of self ***  and so project that same LIMITED sense of self onto Jesus. But Jesus Knows better than to limit Himself like that. "He" Knows He is FAR MORE than just this physical form. Basically .. The ONE that Jesus is referencing and the ONE which AN is ASSUMING here.. are VERY VERY different.

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So, BOTH those statements are correct. Jesus IS The ONE... and "God" CAN easily take on more than One FORM of The Grace Bestower. Out of compassion....The ONE Grace Bestower has always been with us.. in one form or another.
ALL manifest forms of The Grace Bestower Realize fully that they are all that SELF Same ONE. THIS is the difference between seeing through unawakened eyes and "seeing" through Grace Awakened eyes. Grace IS the way... to True Understanding.

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Jesus' actual Divine ESSENCE... is the ONE...regardless of the physical form that Essence is currently occupying. Otherwise... if Jesus sweat, or peed... His "Godhood" would be diminished... (since the physical form is nothing but water and a few minerals), and it isn't.

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Consider.... Jesus HAS a body.. and KNOWS He is far more than that body. So, AN's THINKING of what that ONE is... is severely limited.

 ~  ~   ~  The good news is... the moment The Grace Bestower manifests for them... they WILL recognize THAT ONE regardless of the FORM... which is a good thing since there are no actual pictures of Jesus.   :P   Hmmmm.

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~ The Heart is the hub of all sacred places, go there and roam ~
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Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Friends;

For those interested in a full discussion of Judio-Christian ideas and history, this website may be of interest. There is a full free exchange of ideas, and a good discussion of the history and ideas of our faiths. This is the home page, but there are several good sites and links for those who can think and want to fine-tune their knowledge of or faiths.

>>> http://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/<<<

Have fun, and learn.

Shalom;

Yechiel

>>>

 
Faith

Hi Yechiel... I believe we have touched on this subject before... but perhaps you could add to my current understanding. 

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Each of the great dualistic religions also has a non-dual Mystical component within it. 

       Just as the Christians have the mystical Gnostic tradition (not to be confused with false gnosis... which holds a dual and NOT a non-dual perspective so VERY different)... and the Hindus have the mystical Vedantic and Saivite Traditions,  and the Moslems have the mystical Suffi tradition.. which encompasses the Whirling Dirvishes, (Not to be confused with the Sunis  :P )....    the Jewish ALSO have a non-dual mystical tradition...The Cabalists.

Now... though ALL who have been invited in, by Grace, to any of the non-dual Mystical Traditions... are in fact CHOSEN by Grace to be privy to this rare state .... not ALL Christians, Hindus, Moslems, or Jews are able to hold this Unique State. In fact.. they most often distort and misunderstand it, and so reject it... without actually understanding what it is that they are actually rejecting.

OK ... so my question to you is... how do most dualistic Jewish people you know perceive the mytical non/dual based Cabalists? 

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Perhaps the closest I can come to explaining the extremely subtle non-dual State is that of Panentheism.... which is different again and more subtle than Pantheism.   How do you feel most Jewish then look at Panentheism?  Are there those who actually grasp, not just intellectually but by Grace.. the ultimate  ONEness of all things?   Is Grace... as in the Active manifest power of "God" something to be sought?  And if so... How?

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 In general is there any discord between the more traditional dualistic jews and the non-dual mystical Cabalists?   ...  As there is between the dualistic Christians and their non-dual Mystical counterpart The *True Gnostics? 

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* As opposed to the 'false' gnostics ... as in those who claim Gnosis... Knowledge .. (of the Divine Absolute understood)... but only have finite mind knowledge and so remain in Spiritual Ignorance. 

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Dual here meaning TWO... as in There is Me and also That which is Not Me... as absolute reality   % % %    And Non-dual meaning ONE... as in there is ONLY "God" That ONE Infinite SELF... playing all these roles.....  As in a dream where the Dreamer is understood to be playing all the roles in that dream. 

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The mystical perspective holds that ... The ONE is in the many and the many is in the ONE.   However..... while The "ONE" does NOT differentiate or limit ...the "Many" Do. 

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OK... so, easy stuff right?   <g>   Any thoughts you care to share on this most esoteric topic, from a Jewish perspective,  would be welcome.  

I had a dear friend (now passed on), who was non-dual Jewish  but her more traditional family had no idea where she was coming from.   Oh well... it goes with the territory I guess.   : )

~ Peace ~

 
Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Faith;

Thank you for your post... It is encouraging that there are people who  look beyond the envelope.

In Judaism, we do encompass traditions which explain creation as both, what HaShem has done, and how Creation is a part of, or He is the sustainer of Creation. With few exceptions, though, none I know of today accept HaShem and His Creation as one, so much, beyond; as His Word is Creation (The Ten Words of the Covenant, for example),

The origins of current Christianity were not in the first century, CE, they were in the cultures which developed before the birth of Jesus. Or else, how could the people of such a wide spread area have been comfortable with what they were told by Paul and his successors? And accept these other-wise foreign ideas and beliefs????

For 3 centuries, peace between the sects was more the rule, than the exception; then, in the 4th century, someone became "boss," and all had to do it "this way" or else! The Oneness of humanity was replaced by the MEness of an over-riding authority, with ideas brought in which are none Biblical, but made kosher (very small 'k') by a vote of council, and enforced by force.

The website I shared with you, you shall have to seek some of the relevant material. There are discussions about what I am posting here. I am not a lone voice in the wilderness, but a conduit for ideas centuries old, and maybe so or maybe not accepted by whomever. Some I do not accept, but they are part of the recipe, so I at least look at them.

Canaanite Gospels >>>http://yourphariseefriend.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/the-canaanite-gospels/<<<and the archives have a wealth of information and history, for those not afraid of facts, and what was written by the developers of our civilization. Have fun, and also look at some of the links. Most are for Jewish education, but there are some that have Christians involved as well.

Shalom;

Yechiel

 
Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Friends;

Maybe this shall help bring some light into our discussion.

>>> Love, Law and Jeremiah 9:23

God’s holy Law and His love are seen by some as to conflicting factors in our relationship with the Divine. Loving God and observing the Law are understood by these people as two separate approaches to God.

Nothing can be further from the truth. There is no love of God without Law.

What is love?

Imagine if “A” loves “B” but “A” knows nothing about what is going on in the heart of “B”. “A” does not know what “B” cares about, what “B” fears, what brings “B” happiness, what “B” yearns for or what is important to “B”. Can we say that “A” truly loves “B”? “A” does not even know “B” so how could “A” claim to love “B”?

If “A” and “B” were two humans, this scenario would never be entirely true. Since both “A” and “B” share the same properties; “A” will automatically know that “B” wants to live and fears death. “A” will know much about “B” simply because “A” is equal to “B” in so many ways.

But what if “A” is a human and “B” is God? And the human does not know what God cares about, what is important to His heart, what He loves and what He hates. How then can the human claim to love God? Perhaps our human: “A” has a vague idea that God is holy, pure and good, but what do these words mean to our friend: “A”? Do they mean the same things that they mean to God?

The fact is that a human being can never fully understand God. But it is only to the degree that God’s heart is meaningful to the human that the human can claim to love God.

God loves kindness justice and charity. We can know this by reading the code of morality that God breathed into each of our souls. We can know this more clearly by diligently studying this code that is written on our hearts.

When God gave the Law to the Jewish people, He revealed His heart to them more openly than he has done for the rest of man-kind. He taught them what He loves and what He hates. He taught them what He considers pure and what He considers impure. He taught them what He cares about and what moves His heart.

The Law of Moses is not something different than the code of morality that is written on the heart of every human that has the breath of God in their nostrils. The Law of Moses is the commentary to that universal code.

The Law is not a contradiction to love, nor is it a different path to God. Incorporating kindness, justice and charity into our lives is the way we embrace God.<<<

Shalom;

Yechiel

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