Discuss Yechielshlipshon's answer to: Best Religion

Which religion should I convert to?

Dear Friends;

I am having a friendly conversation on an other blog, about conversion and Jewish leaders advoccating engaging Jews who have converted to another faith. We recognize that thre are issues on both sides. I postulated some I see as relavent, and this is my response to some of them.

>>> Dear Friends;

I wonder; if it is OK to go after Jewish persons and engage them in conversation which targets them for accepting their religion, as has happened to me, and there is no consideration what they or their parents think, there is no problem? The response I get is that these persons are saving souls.
Now, have they asked what G-d may think of this? He, who has an eternal relationship with the Jewish people, as long as the person is loyal to the Torah, may have a problem with His Chosen People being motivated to change their faith (Messianic Jews, as well as Christians, see their way as a separate faith) may have some thoughts of His own?
But it is all right to engage a Jew to change his faith.
Now, if I was to engage your son or daughter to be Jewish, what would be your response? Do you have rights over your child?
Then, your child grows up, or is grown, and has accepted Torah; then raise their own child as Jews. Would you leave them alone, as the child had made its’ decision and done as he or she has done.
OK?
Now, you go up to a Jew and convert that person to Christianity, or Islam, or Hinduism, whichever faith you are? What do you think the family’s reaction would be? How do you think they would act? Anything like you may act?
When the itch is on the other leg, you react. You do not want the person you sold your faith to return to his or hers parental faith, so then you scream foul play. But think of this; you have no right to coerce a person to change their faith, anymore than you see me having a right to change anyone to my faith. I can and do respect this, what I find hard to understand is this; why is it not OK to go to a Jew who has been sold your faith, and show how the bill of sale could be faulty? You claim free society, and you have the right to sell your faith, we have the right, and here, obligation, to show where the person could be loosing something very valuable; their Salvation.
Leave G-d, as a Jew, He will curse that person until that person repents.
As it is, there are many more Christians coming to Judaism than Jews going to Christianity or MJ, and with very few exceptions, no Jew involved until that person makes up its’ mind to convert. There are very few Jews who leave Judaism without someone having engaged that person in a conversation to change.
Personally, both ways are wrong; wherever G-d places His soul we should respect it. You do not, instead, you want to make the world Christian. Which Christian? The most my studies have shown where a Christian respects and is respected by all other Christians is no more than one-third of the world’s Christians; all others are not the “Right kind of Christian” as I have been told.
Protestants do not accept Catholics as Christians, for example. So maybe instead of agitating for change from one faith to another, it may serve Christianity, and G-d’s Will, if you all become Christian, first.
Let us see how a Christian world can interact and what you can do, as respectful followers of G-d and of His teachers in the faith. Then, you may have something to share. Right now, all I see is conflict and aggravation. Not good-you be Christian. Then you may have something to share.<<<
Shalom;
Yechiel

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Yechielshlipshon

Dear Friends;

For those who look for chapter and verse for what I post, this may help.

I believe with perfect faith that God is one.

There is no unity that is in any way like His.

He alone is our God.

He was, He is, He will be.

 

 

Exodus 20:2-3 - The First of the Ten Commandments

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, and of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me.” (See also Deuteronomy 5:7)

 

Numbers 23:19

“God is not a man that He should lie, nor a mortal that He should change His mind.”

 

Deuteronomy 4:11-12

“You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no image; there was only a voice.”

 

Deuteronomy 4:35

“You are the ones who have been shown, so that you will know that God is the Supreme Being, and there is none other besides Him!”

 

Deuteronomy 4:39

“Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other!"

 

Deuteronomy 6:4

“Hear O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one.”

 

Deuteronomy 6:14

“You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you!”

 

Deuteronomy 32:39

“See, now, that I, I am He - and no god is with Me...”

 

I Samuel 2:2

“There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside Thee; neither is there any Rock like our God."

 

I Samuel 15:29

“The Eternal One of Israel will not lie nor change His mind: for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”

 

I Kings 8:27

“For will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee; how much less this house that I have built?”

 

I Kings 8:60

“So that all the nations of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other!”

 

II Kings 19:19

“Now, O Lord our God, deliver us from his hand, so that all kingdoms on earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God.” (Psalm 113:5)

 

Isaiah 40:18

“To whom then will you liken God? To what likeness will you compare unto Him?”

 

Isaiah 40:25

“To whom will then you liken Me, that I should be his equal?” says the Holy One.

 

Isaiah 42:8

“I am the Lord, that is My name, and My glory will I not give to another. Neither My praise to graven images!”

 

Isaiah 43:10-11

“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

 

Isaiah 44:6-8

This is what the Lord says, Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty, “I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God! Who then is like Me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before Me...Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

 

Isaiah 44:24

So said the Lord, your Redeemer, the One who formed you from the womb, “I am the Lord Who makes everything, Who stretched forth the heavens alone, Who spread out the earth by Myself.”

 

Isaiah 45:5-6

“I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God... I will strengthen you...I order that they know from the shining of the sun and from the west that there is no one besides Me; I am the Lord and there is no other!”

 

Isaiah 45:18-19

For this is what the Lord says – He who created the heavens, He is God; He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited – He says: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, ‘Seek Me in vain.’ I, the Lord, speak the 

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles/one-god.html

truth; I declare what is right.”

 

Isaiah 45:21-22

“...who announced this before, who declared it from the distant past? Is it not I, the Lord, and there is no God apart from Me, a righteous God and Savior; there is none but Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other!”

 

Isaiah 46:5

“To whom shall you liken Me and make Me equal and compare Me that we may be alike?”

 

Isaiah 46:9

“Remember the first things of old, that I am God and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me.”

 

Isaiah 48:11

“...And My honor I will not give to another.”

 

Hosea 13:4

“And I am the Lord your God, Who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but Me, no Savior except Me!”

 

Joel 2:27

“And you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and I am the Lord your God, there is no other; and My people shall never be ashamed.”

 

Malachi 2:10

“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why should we betray, each one his brother, to profane the covenant of our forefathers?”

 

Psalm 73:25

“Whom have I in heaven but You? And earth has nothing I desire besides You.”

 

Psalm 81:8-9

“Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me! Let there be no strange god among you; nor shall you worship any foreign god."

 

Psalm 146:3

“Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation!”

 

Nehemiah 9:6

“You alone are the Lord; You made the heavens, the heavens of the heavens and all their host, the earth and all that is upon it, the seas and all that is in them, and You give life to them all, and the heavenly host bow down before You.”

 

I Chronicles 17:20

“O Lord, there is none like You, neither is there any God beside You, according to all that we have heard with our ears!”

 

© Tovia Singer 2011

I believe with perfect faith that God is one.

There is no unity that is in any way like His.

He alone is our God.

He was, He is, He will be.

He is as He said.

Shalom;

Yechiel

 
MikeC

Isaiah 9 :5   For a child is born to us, a son is given us;  upon his shoulder dominion rests.  They name him Wonder-Couselor,  God_Hero,  Father-Forever, Prince of peace.   Isaiah 11 1-10

Isaiah 42 1-4 Isaiah, 52 14-15 Isaiah 53 5,10,12, The child is not the nation of Israel. Prince of peace is not Israel. God hero, is not Israel, Wonder counselor, is not Israel.

 
Anonymous Comment

Forgive me for the long post, but I can not explain this in one paragraph.

 

After Paul spent one whole letter showing that Israel after the flesh is nothing, that only new creations in Christ avail, that these Judaizers profit nothing, that God now deals with His true Israel, the spiritual seed of Abraham—then he says: “From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus” (6:17). He is saying: I bear in my heart the mark of circumcision by the Spirit, and in my body the marks of the sufferings for the cause of Christ, as I have been persecuted by the Jews, the children of Abraham born after the flesh; so never speak to me again that Israel after the flesh is God’s chosen people, for they are not.

Now in the Book of Hebrews we see this same truth illustrated over and over again: the truth that God has done away with the types and the shadows, also the physical things of Israel, which stood for a time, but have now given way to the spiritual realities as found in Christ. Since this has been accomplished by God in Christ, then to go back to an earthly temple, an earthly altar, an earthly priesthood, an earthly tabernacle, earthly animal sacrifices, an earthly covenant, an earthly throne and an earthly king in a so-called 1000 years of Jewish prosperity with Christ sitting upon an earthly throne in present Jerusalem would be “to turn again to the weak and beggarly elements” (Gal 4:9). It would mean to put to naught this great Book of Hebrews and all its teaching that God in His eternal purpose has a better country, a heavenly, awaiting His people; in fact, better things than all the physical things of this life.

The book of Hebrews, perhaps more than any of the books of the Bible, stands as a source of frustration and embarrassment to those who teach that God plans to return one day to the natural trappings of the old Jewish economy, to the natural land and city, the natural law and ordinances, the natural kingdom and throne, and the natural temple and sacrifices.

The Holy Spirit through the writer of Hebrews shows the overwhelming superiority of the new and better age that dawned at Calvary. He shows that after Calvary the natural types and figures had served their purpose and were vanishing away, having been replaced forever by the eternal and spiritual realities (Heb 8:13).

Note the word “better” as used in Hebrews. Did the Israelites’ fathers hear the voice of the prophets? We, the true, spiritual Israel hear the “better” voice of God’s Son (1:1,2). Did the Israelites have a high priest after the Levitical order? We have a “better” One after the “better” and undying order of Melchisedec (6:20-7:28). Did they seek, unsuccessfully, for perfection through the law? We have a “better” hope through the grace of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (7:19). Did they have an earthly sanctuary with a candlestick, table and shewbread, and a tabernacle with the golden censer, the ark, and the mercyseat (9:1-5)? We have Christ: “a greater and more perfect tabernacle” (9:11). Did they have the blood of bulls and goats that could not take away sins (10:4)? We have the incomparably “better” “blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God” (9:14). Did the Israelites receive an earthly land? We have “a better country, that is, an heavenly” (11:16). Did they come to a mount that could be touched (12:18)? We have come to the “better” Mount Zion (12:22). Did they have the natural city of Jerusalem? We have the incomparably “better” “city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem” (12:22). To go further, we as spiritual Israel have a “better” covenant, the New Covenant, that was foretold by the Prophets, and since Calvary, has forever replaced the old and faulty covenant (8:1) that existed between God and Israel. The New Covenant is the covenant of which Jeremiah prophesied, and that was fulfilled once for all, for both Jews and Gentiles, at the first coming of Christ. The New Covenant that God has made with the new Israel is “not according to the covenant” that he made with natural Israel, which “covenant they broke” (Jer 31:32). “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel...I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people...they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest” (vv 33,34).

The prophet Ezekiel expressed it in these words: “I will make a covenant of peace with them: it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: Yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people” (Ezek 37:26-27).

In two places in Hebrews (8:6-13; 10:16-17), these prophesies are quoted as referring to the new spiritual Israel, the true Israel of God. These verses show this “better” covenant was already established in the first century, and that the old one even then was decaying and getting old, and was ready to vanish away. Not long after the writing of Hebrews, the temple rituals and sacrifices, the proudest features of the old covenant relationship, vanished completely as the city of Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed by the Romans.

In II Corinthians, the old covenant made with the Jews, which they did not keep, is called: “The ministration of death, written and engraven in stones...the ministration of condemnation” (3:7,9); but the new covenant is: “The ministration of the spirit” (3:6). The glory of the old covenant, as once reflected in the face of Moses “was to be done away” (3:7) and was to be replaced by the new covenant that will “exceed in glory” (3:9). We draw this conclusion: the New Covenant had forever replaced the old covenant in these words: “For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious” (3:11).

Since Calvary, and forever, the new covenant is God’s only covenant with man, and it is based upon the “better” promises of the crucified, buried, risen, exalted Lord Jesus Christ. Its inauguration was announced by Christ on the night in which He was betrayed when, “he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matt 26:27,28). This covenant relationship with God, through the blood of Christ, is offered to as many as receive Him (John 1:12) prior to His second coming. There will be no opportunity after His coming; for then comes the White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20.

This covenant is the covenant of grace and therefore is based upon the operation of our Triune God by His Spirit working in the hearts of both Jew and Gentile, to call out a bride for Christ who is the Head of the spiritual race called—the true Israel of God.

One other thought on the book of Hebrews: it was written to show that Christ our Lord, God manifested in the flesh, is far greater and “better” than all creatures and things. In chapter one He is spoken of as being “better” than the angels; in chapter two He is shown to be greater and “better” than man; in chapter three He is spoken of as “better” and greater than Moses; in chapter four, “better” and greater than Joshua; in chapters 5, 6, & 7, He is shown as the Great High Priest, “better” than the priesthood of Aaron; in chapter 8, He is as the One who “obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.” In chapter 9, our Lord Jesus is shown to be greater than all the sacrifices, greater than the tabernacle and its ministry, and that He is the one great offering made for His people, the true Israel of God.

“But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” (Heb 9:11-14). We see then that Jesus Christ the Mediator of the New Covenant is “better” and far greater than all, and therefore He has a name which is above every name. Also His work is complete: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified...We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all” (10:10,14).

This shows us that in Christ Jesus, the true Israel of God, made up of believers, born again by His Spirit, need no future earthy altar, temple, sacrifice or throne because we are forever complete in Christ by His “once for all” salvation which He finished at Calvary.

The kingdom of God is not a natural, earthly, political kingdom that will be established at some uncertain date in a little country in the Near East. No, it is a present, eternal, universal, immoveable and spiritual kingdom. Taken in its proper context, the Greek word translated “kingdom” in the New Testament does not mean a physical kingdom with a specific and limited location; it means the rule or reign or authority of God (Jesus Christ)  in the hearts and lives of His people, His church, the true Israel of God.

 
Anonymous Comment

Mike,Smile

 
 
jameslee102447

What I don’t understand is why some on this post do not understand that the God of Abraham or the God of the Old Testament is the same God as Jesus the Christ. We are not dealing with different beliefs in religion. we seem to be dealing with a cultural difference of misunderstanding. Jesus the Christ is the God of Abraham. Too many trying to represent God, without allowing Jesus the Christ to represent them.

 
Anonymous Comment

Some can read and see scripture says the God of Abraham or the God of the Old Testament is the same God  Jesus Christ. However, some  have never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord God and savior.

 

Jesus Christ is the same God of Abraham. The one and only God. Jesus Christ the one Lord God Almighty, The Word Of God. The Savior. The One they have not accepted as their Lord God and savior.

 

How can anyone allow Jesus Christ to represent them when He is not in them to represent them, when they have never allow or accepted Jesus Christ in their heart and soul as their Lord God and Savior?

 

They can not. Jesus Christ can not represent what He is not of. Jesus Christ is God, the word Of God, the word of God is not in them to represent them.

 
Anonymous Comment

Oh, he understands very well that Jesus Christ says He is the God of Abraham, However, he has never accepted Jesus Christ the God of Abraham as his Lord God and Savior.

 
MikeC

Jameslee  You said,  "We are not dealing with different beliefs in religion. we seem to be dealing with a cultural difference of misunderstanding. Jesus the Christ is the God of Abraham."

  

There is very little cultural difference in the belief of Jesus Christ. This is a faith issue that goes well beyond culture. The belief in Jesus Christ is taught throughout the world. The acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ is quite a different matter. The text of the Bible is written in every language and in every country of the world. The real question is the importance of Jesus Christ. Where does he come into play ?. What is his importance? , How is He in the relationship to God ? Did God show himself in the physical form of Jesus ? If he did, (I believe He did) what is our responsibility to this perception ? Yes, the God of Abraham is the same God, yes God dwells in all of us. Yes God understands us, each one of us. Yes, God/Christ hears all. You see, I believe that Jesus Christ is God and there was a reason for him to appear before us. I cannot reject him for any reason because I believe he came to us for a reason. To me, once understanding the reason for Jesus Christ, The I Am, God gave himself a human name for our sake. That name is Jesus Christ for all of humanity to hear. What is the importance of that name ? You cannot hear that name without wondering the importance of that name.

  

 
Anonymous Comment

You are right except for one thing, you said "God dwells in all of us"

 

If that were true then ALL OF US would believe in Jesus Christ.

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