Discuss jameslee102447's answer to: Best Religion

Which religion should I convert to?

Attn: Yechielshlipshon

I thought this was a closed issue. 

You are not calling a faith equal when you are telling that faith that the whole premise for their faith is not true. Now is this not what you have been doing when you say that Jesus the Christ was not the lineage of the house of David? Or when you say that Mary was not the virgin spoken about in the Old Testament? Then you keep denying that which is obvious, as if you did not say it when it is very clear that you did. Was it not you that said “The descendantcy has to be from the father, to make it legal. At least this is what G-d wants, as He told us through out the Tanach.”. Now your back again trying to justify it by saying you have said all along that you have said all along that all faiths are equal. Would I be saying that your faith is equal if I said that the God you believe in is false and is really nothing but one of the Gods handed down to the Jews by the Egyptians, and that Judaism is really based of several other Gods? Let me answer that NO, I repeat NO. Our Faith is based on the One God just as Judaism is; the difference is that the Christian faith is based on the acceptance of the Blood Sacrifice for the wages of sin by the Son of God known as Jesus the Christ. Now let me ask you, was this not what you have said and does it sound like a person saying that all faiths are equal? You have refused to take responsibility for what you have said; instead you keep trying to justify it.

Those who believe that Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God and is the Messiah have a Universal King and this would mean that Jesus the Christ is the way to Gods Kingdom and salvation. And if one does not believe in Jesus the Christ then perhaps their Holy curriculum has yet to be discovered.

One can search every facet of the Universe, but unless one carries that which one is searching for with them, they find it not.
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Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Jameslee;

Saying that all faiths are equal, and saying that I can accept all of them are two different issues. On the Joseph issue, for once and all, it is Physical (Genetic) descendants that is legal.

This has nothing to do if I see a religion as equal, as I do not accept the idols of the Hindus, but they are as equal with us as Christianity, or any other religion.

Now, Jameslee, You are the one beating the drums on this item, so if what I post conflicts with you, I am only stating what I believe is true. I have no apology for the Truth!

Anointing, like anything which has a value for the society, has to be known to be effective. This includes anointing, which has to be by a process the people can accept. Spiritual anointing wont cut it for this reason, so that is out.

I accept all religions as equal in value with Judaism, as such, but not all conceptual interpretations. Not knocking any, just that there has to be some purpose and comprehension for an action or idea to take effect. I think you hit the main issue between Judaism and Christianity on the head, Jameslee; if it does not fit, it pinches.

If it does not fit, don't wear it.

I am to going to go through more items we disagree with, or even do agree on. But as anyone who reads our posts can see, you are putting words into my mouth. The taste is awful. I never said anything which can be interpreted as accepting Blood Sacrifice, or that Jesus can be accepted by Jews as, in any form, a messiah. He was never anointed, thus the translation of the word, anointing, cannot be used to describe any action he had in relation to anointing.

We are two separate religions, Jameslee. We have two separate ways to see the world. As it happens, your religion came out of ours, so we do share many ideas. Your religion has taken these ideas and re-described/translated them. Other words you re-interpreted. So as long as your faith has these issues, you are in a poor position to be pointing fingers at anyone else. Correct them, then we see where we are.

So, Jameslee, cool it. I have said nothing to put any religion down, just because I disagree with some of the ideas. Anymore than you put Judaism down only for letting it be known where you disagree with us. I have no problem, and I was going to let the descendant issue go, but you resurrected it. Good thing, it works as an example of what we are talking about. 

One more item; human sacrifice is traif.

Shalom;

Yechiel

 
Anonymous Comment

Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:  But as anyone who reads our posts can see, you are putting words into my mouth. The taste is awful. I never said anything which can be interpreted as accepting Blood Sacrifice, or that Jesus can be accepted by Jews as, in any form, a messiah. He was never anointed, thus the translation of the word, anointing, cannot be used to describe any action he had in relation to anointing.

Your religion has taken these ideas and re-described/translated them. Other words you re-interpreted. So as long as your faith has these issues, you are in a poor position to be pointing fingers at anyone else. Correct them, then we see where we are. So, Jameslee, cool it.





Here at last they show themselves as true saints and pious children. At this point they certainly do not want to be accounted liars and blasphemers but reliable prophets, asserting that Jesus is not the Messiah same as the Messiah has not yet come but will still appear. Who will take them to task here for their error or mistake? Even if all the angels and God himself publicly declared on Mount Sinai or in the temple in Jerusalem that the Messiah had come long ago and that he was no longer to be expected, God himself and all the angels would have to be considered nothing but devils. So convinced are these most holy and truthful prophets that the Messiah has not yet appeared but will still come. Nor will they listen to us. They turned a deaf ear to us in the past and still do so, although many fine scholarly people, including some from their own race, have refuted them so thoroughly that even stone and wood, if endowed with a particle of reason, would have to yield. Yet they rave consciously against recognized truth. Their accursed rabbis, who in deed know better, wantonly poison the minds of their poor youth and of the common man and divert them from the truth. For I believe that if these writings were read by the common man and the youth they would stone all their rabbis and hate them more violently than they do us Christians. But these villains prevent our sincere views from coming to their attention.



However, although we perhaps labor in vain on the Jews for I said before that I don't want to dispute with them we nonetheless want to discuss their senseless folly among ourselves, for the strengthening of our faith and as a warning to weak Christians against the Jews, and, chiefly, in honor of God, in order to prove that our faith is true and that they are entirely mistaken on the question of the Messiah. We Christians have our New Testament, which furnishes us reliable and adequate testimony concerning the Messah. That the Jews do not believe it does not concern us; we believe their accursed glosses still less. We let them go their way and wait for their Messiah. Their unbelief does not harm us; but as to the help they derive and to date have derived from it, they may ask of their long-enduring exile. That will, in deed, supply the answer for us. Let him who will not follow lag behind. They act as though they were of great importance to us. Just to vex us, they corrupt the sayings of Scripture. We do not at all desire or require their conversion for any advantage, usefulness, or help accruing to us therefrom. All that we do in this regard is prompted rather by a concern for their welfare. If they do not want it, they can disregard it; we are excused and can easily dispense with them, together with all that they are, have, and can do for salvation. We have a better knowledge of Scripture, thanks be to God; this we are certain of, and all the devils shall never deprive us of it, much less the Jews.

I will submit a verse found in Genesis 49:10: "The scepter shall not depart from Judah... until Shiloh comes, and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples." This saying of the holy patriarch Jacob, spoken at the very end of his life, has been tortured and crucified in many ways down to the present day by the modern, strange Jews, in violation of their own conscience. For they realize fully that their twisting and perverting is nothing but wanton mischief. Their glosses remind me very much of an evil, stubborn shrew who clamorously contradicts her husband and insists on having the last word although she knows she is in the wrong. Thus these blinded people also suppose that it suffices to bark and to prattle against the text and its true meaning; they are entirely indifferent to the fact that they are lying impudently. I believe they would be happier if this verse had never been written rather than that they should change their mind. This verse pains them intensely, and they cannot ignore it.

The ancient, true Jews understood this verse correctly, as we Christians do, namely, that the government or scepter should remain with the tribe of Judah until the advent of the Messiah; then "to him shall be the obedience of the peoples," to him they will adhere. That is, the scepter shall then not be confined to the tribe of Judah, but, as the prophets later explain, it shall be extended to all peoples on earth at the time of the Messiah. However, until he appears, the scepter shall remain in that small nook and corner, Judah. That, I say, is the understanding of the prophets and of the ancient Jews; this they cannot deny. For also their Chaldaean Bible, which they dare oppose as little as the Hebrew Bible itself, shows this clearly.

In translation it reads thus: "The shultan shall not be put away from the house of Judah nor the saphra from his children's children eternally until the Messiah comes, whose is the kingdom, and the peoples will make themselves obedient to him." This is a true and faithful translation of the Chaldaean text, as no Jew or devil can deny.

 
Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear AC;

You just proved us right. But I still accept that all religions are equal. Just that each one has a purpose in His structure of the world. As it stands now, your interpretation can be associated with Islam. But what we are looking for is the one person who shall unite all in unity to obey G-d, and to work together as one family. Can you think of a time when all humanity were united. Say, for example, you accept the Catholics and the Catholics accept you.

Until you stop with your hypocrisy you don't have a leg to stand on, much less the staff. You will not be able to prove this as long as you try to make Christians out of Judah. You see, AC, HaShem shall not allow you to steal His people way from Him, thus eliminating you being to take the messiah's place.

You stated; >>>Here at last they show themselves as true saints and pious children. At this point they certainly do not want to be accounted liars and blasphemers but reliable prophets, asserting that Jesus is not the Messiah same as the Messiah has not yet come but will still appear. Who will take them to task here for their error or mistake? Even if all the angels and God himself publicly declared on Mount Sinai or in the temple in Jerusalem that the Messiah had come long ago and that he was no longer to be expected, <<<

G-d would have to contradict Himself to say as you posted. However, He said that "I am not a man, that I lie!" So AC, as you just proved, the messiah has not yet arrived.

Shalom;

Yechiel

 
Anonymous Comment

This subject is beyond the ken of the blind and hardened Jews. Speaking to them about it is much the same as preaching the gospel to a sow. They cannot know what God's commandment really is, much less do they know how to keep it. After all, they could not listen to Moses, nor look into his face; he had to cover it with a veil. This veil is there to the present day, and they still do not behold Moses' face, that is, his doctrine. It is still veiled to them [cf. II Cor. 3:13 ff.; Exod. 34:33 ff.]. Thus they could not hear God's word on Mount Sinai when he talked to them, but they retreated, saying to Moses: "You speak to us, and we will hear; but let not God speak to us, lest we die" [Exod. 20:19]. To know God's commandment and to know how to keep it requires a high prophetic understanding.

Moses was well aware of that when he said in Exodus 34 that God forgives sin and that no one is guiltless before him, which is to say that no one keeps his commandments but he whose sins God forgives. As David also testifies in Psalm 32:1, "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, ... to whom the Lord imputes no iniquity." And in the same psalm [cf. v. 6]: "Therefore let every one who is godly offer prayer to thee for forgiveness," which means that no saint keeps God's commandments. But if the saints fail to keep them, how will the ungodly, the unbelievers, the evil people keep them? Again we read in Psalm 143:2: "O Lord, enter not into judgment with thy servant; for no man living is righteous before thee." That attests clearly enough that even the holy servants of God are not justified before him unless he sets aside his judgment and deals with them in his mercy; that is, they do not keep his commandments and stand in need of forgiveness of sins.

This calls for a Man who will assist us in this, who bears our sin for us, as Isaiah 53:6 says: "The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." Indeed, that is truly to understand God's law and its observance — when we know, recognize, yes, and feel that we have it, but do not keep it and cannot keep it; that in view of this, we are poor sinners and guilty before God; and that it is only out of pure grace and mercy that we receive forgiveness for such guilt and disobedience through the Man on whom God has laid this sin. Of this we Christians speak and this we teach, and of this the prophets and apostles speak to us and teach us. They are the ones who were and still are our God's bride and pure virgin; and yet they boast of no law or holiness as the Jews do in their synagogues. They rather wail over the law and cry for mercy and forgiveness of sins. The Jews, on the other hand, are as holy as the barefoot friars who possess so much excess holiness that they can use it to help others to get to heaven, and still retain a rich and abundant supply to sell. It is of no use to speak to any of them about these matters, for their blindness arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain. They are in the right; God is in the wrong. Let them go their way, and let us remain with those who pray the *Miserere,* Psalm 51, that is, with those who know and understand what the law is, and what it means to keep and not to keep it.

Learn from this dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, 'When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments, and, despite this, boast haughtily over against the Gentiles — who really are much better before God than they, since they do not have such pride of holiness and yet keep far more of the law than these arrogant saints and damned blasphemers and liars.

Moses had informed them a great many times, first, that they were not occupying the land because their righteousness exceeded that of other heathen for they were a stubborn, evil disobedient people and second, that they would soon be expelled from the land and perish if they did not keep God's commandments. And when God chose the city of Jerusalem he added very clearly in the writings of all the prophets that he would utterly destroy this city of Jerusalem, his seat and throne, if they would not keep his commandments.

They neither hear nor see that God gave them all of this that they might keep his commandments, that is, regard him as their God, and thus be his people and church. They boast of their race and of their descent from the fathers, but they neither see nor pay attention to the fact that he chose their race that they should keep his commandments. They boast of their circumcision; but why they are circumcised namely, that they should keep God's commandments counts for nought. They are quick to boast of their law, temple, worship, city, land and government; but why they possess all of this, they disregard.

The devil with all his angels has taken possession of this people, so that they always exalt external things their gifts, their deeds, their works before God, which is tantamount to offering God the empty shells without the kernels. These they expect God to esteem and by reason of them accept them as his people, and exalt and bless them above all Gentiles. But that he wants his laws observed and wants to be honored by them as God, this they do not want to consider. Thus the words of Moses are fulfilled when he says [Deut. 32:21] that God will not regard them as his people, since they do not regard him as their God. Hosea 2 [cf. 1:9] expresses the same thought.

 
Anonymous Comment

Indeed, if God had not allowed the city of Jerusalem to be destroyed and had them driven out of their country, but had permitted them to remain there, no one could have convinced them that they are not God's people, since they would still be in possession of temple, city, and country regardless of how base, disobedient, and stubborn they were. [They would not have believed it] even if it had snowed nothing but prophets daily and even if a thousand Moseses had stood up and shouted: "You are not God's people, because you are disobedient and rebellious to God." Why, even today they cannot refrain from their nonsensical, insane boasting that they are God's people, although they have been cast out, dispersed, and utterly rejected for over 2000  years. By virtue of their own merits they still hope to return there again. But they have no such promise with which they could console themselves other than what their false imagination smuggles into Scripture.

Our apostle St. Paul was right when he said of them that "they have a zeal for God, but it is not enlightened," etc. [Rom. 10:2]. They claim to be God's people by reason of their deeds, works, and external show, and not because of sheer grace and mercy, as all prophets and all true children of God have to be, as was said. Therefore they are beyond counsel and help. In the same way as our papists, bishops, monks, and priests, together with their following, who insist that they are God's people and church; they believe that God should esteem them because they are baptized, because they have the name, and because they rule the roost. There they stand like a rock. If a hundred thousand apostles came along and said: "You are not the church because of your behavior or your many doings and divine services, even though these were your best efforts; no, you must despair of all this and adhere simply and solely to the grace and mercy of Christ. . If you fail to do this, you are the devil's whore or a school of knaves and not the church," they would wish to murder, burn at the stake, or banish such apostles. As for believing them and abandoning their own devices, of this there is no hope; it will not happen.

But as we noted earlier, that is beyond the comprehension of the Jews,  As St. Paul says in [I Corinthians 1, "The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned" [I Cor. 2:14]. Thus the words of Isaiah 6:9 come true: "Hear and hear, but do not understand; see and see, but do not perceive." For they do not know what they hear, see, say, or do. And yet they do not concede that they are blind and deaf.

 
Anonymous Comment

That shall be enough for now about the false boast and pride of the Jews, who would move God with sheer lies to regard them as his people. It is not my purpose to quarrel with the Jews, nor to learn from them how they interpret or understand Scripture; I know all of that very well already. Much less do I propose to convert the Jews, for that is impossible. Now I turn him back over to jameslee as his eyes are being opened to the facts.

 
Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Friends;

To know the truth, just look at the opposite of what AC posts.

Shalom;

Yechiel

 
jameslee102447

Attn:

Yechielshlipshon

Here you are again trying to justify your trashing Christianity by redirecting into something that has nothing to do with your actions or what you have said. You say all faiths are equal and then trash Christianity. All faiths being equal has nothing to do with you accepting them or not, it has never been an issue, just a redirect from the real issue. You’re like alcoholic refusing to admit you’re an alcoholic. And now your back to trying to prove that you are right when you say, “it is Physical (Genetic) descendants that is legal.”, once again you are blind to the issue. This comment is true by the law of humanity but Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and God is Spirit, and Gods law trumps any law you can come up with. Another redirect by implying that what you are posting is only what you believe is true, as if that was the problem. Still missing the issue of you telling Christians that what they believe is a lie, and when you do that you are not considering them equal.

This has nothing to do with items we disagree with, it has to do with you refusing to owe up to you telling Christians that their Faith is based on lies. There is nothing that I have said that is not true and I have not put any words into your mouth, everything I have said is backed up by all postings. Vilifying me by your statement, “But as anyone who reads our posts can see, you are putting words into my mouth.”, and then a follow up statement of, “The taste is awful. I never said anything which can be interpreted as accepting Blood Sacrifice, or that Jesus can be accepted by Jews as, in any form, a messiah.” No one said you did, my statement was, and “the difference is that the Christian faith is based on the acceptance of the Blood Sacrifice for the wages of sin by the Son of God known as Jesus the Christ.” Now how is that putting words into your mouth, all the words out of your mouth are from the person you are.

Now you go off into saying he was never anointed, you may believe this but according to scripture of the New Testament He was anointed. But this has nothing to do with the issue. But just for the record:

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

I am speaking from the view point of a Faith in Jesus the Christ, and you are one trashing the whole religion of Christianity. And now you say that the Christian Faith has re-interpreted the Bible, more trashing even in the face of being asked not to. You can disagree with ideas all day, and it would have no effect upon the Faith, but you are not just disagreeing, you are telling Christians that the base’s of their Faith is a lie. And I did not resurrect it, you did when you commented on my complimenting you on saying that Christianity and Judaism was equal, you could not let it go, you had to post again say that that is what you have been saying all along in order to make yourself right. Also I have not disagreed with any of Judaism’s ideas; I have only disagreed with your representation of Judaism’s ideas.

 
Yechielshlipshon Thinks this answer is Helpful:

Dear Jameslee;

I do not compose the comments you are fussing about. HaShem is the composer. You have a problem, go to Him. I am not G-d, nor am I. His spokesperson.

Shalom;

Yechiel

PS;

i have shared the above with other Christians. they found much to agree with. Remember, i grew up and lived in a CHristian environment all of my 68 years, so I have both, knowledge of Christianity beyond my studies, and a feeling of what the majority shall accept. You are in the minute miority, my friend. I just do not see where I state my quoting of Tanach is equal to not respecting your faith.

But, then, I have no agenda or need to convince anyone of anything.

 
Anonymous Comment

jameslee102447

Attn:

Yechielshlipshon

Still missing the issue of you telling Christians that what they believe is a lie, and when you do that you are not considering them equal.This has nothing to do with items we disagree with, it has to do with you refusing to owe up to you telling Christians that their Faith is based on lies.

 

 

 

No person has yet been born, or will ever be born, who can grasp or comprehend how foliage can sprout from wood or a tree, or how grass can grow forth from stone or earth, or how any creature can be begotten. Yet these , blind, hardened liars presume to fathom and to know what is happening outside and beyond the creature in God's hidden, incomprehensible, inscrutable, and eternal essence.

 

Though we ourselves can grasp only with difficulty and with weak faith what has been revealed to us about this in veiled words, they give vent to such terrible blasphemy over it as to call our faith idolatrous, which is to reproach and defame God himself as an idol. We are convinced of our faith and doctrine; and they, too, ought to understand it, having heard for 2000 years that it is by God and from God through Jesus Christ.

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