Discuss Ol' Yeddar's answer to: How are kabbalistic ideas and practices related to the philosophical strand of Judaism?

Dear O'Yedder;

True, Jesus bio shows little mysticism outside of pure worship of G-d. What most of us miss is that Kabbalah is more in-depth of what the Torah says, and when you read his statements, you get a "readers Digest" version of the SAcred word.

Nothing wrong here, as the full recipe for life is in the plain text, and all you need. But the further you go ito His word, by osmosis, the more Kabbalah you pick up.

I hope this helped.

Shalom;

Yechiel

While I see no point in the future where I abandon my Christian beliefs, the more that I read, the more similarities that I find between certain philosophies. The only difference I see in Christianity and AA is our beliefs concerning the incarnation, life, and resurrection of Yeshua. What little I read at one of the Kabbalah sites seemed nothing more that a reiteration of the expression- you must be born again. I don't see much choice here beyond doing some more reading. Being that you are familiar with this and I am not, do you have any suggestions that would not be too overwhelming?

Shalom,

Jay

Dear O'Yedder;

Google Kabbalah, and look for such sites as Kabalah TV, and check out some that cater to both Jewish and Christian philosophy. There are basic life affirming ideas they concentrate on which should not conflect with what you have shared with us.

Happy hunting, and GBY.

Shalom;

Yechiel

Insofar as I know, I have no issues with anything found in the Tanakh. My understanding of the way that GOD has made Himself known to us is progressive revelation.

Did the Jews Miss Their Messiah?

Daniel 9:25

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

   The Book of Daniel. Some of you have read it, some may not. This passage above is quite interesting. Daniel is told that to bring an end to sin and transgression, all these prophecies would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. The second verse goes on to tell us that from the decree to rebuild the temple until Messiah comes is 69 weeks. But what were these weeks. An in depth reading finds that these were weeks of years, so that the total would be 70 x 7 meaning 490 years total until these things would be fulfilled. Well, we note the time of the Messiah being 69 weeks as laid out in the 25th verse which adds up to 483 years. The question then comes in to play as to when the decree was given.

   In the opening chapters of Nehemiah, we find that it is Nissan 1st in 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes the decree is given. A look in history books shows us that is 445BC. Okay, so what is important about that? Well, 483 years later gives us the 10th of Nissan 32AD when Jesus came in to Jerusalem and was called Hosanna and hailed as the Messiah. So many Jews were looking for a Messiah that would come in on a horse with power and rule and missed one of their prophets' descriptions.

 

Zechariah 9:9

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 

   Scripture already shows that Jesus fulfilled this, he came on the foal of an ass but look what the Jews who reject Jesus missed in this prophecy. He brought salvation. On the 14th of Nissan, just as other lambs were slain, so was Jesus as the final sacrifice for all. Now, I want you to look at two quandaries that you, as a Jew, are in. First, even if you were to disagree with some of the dates given, the fact is, it is now 2012AD, well past the time given in Daniel for the Messiah to appear. The Jews have rejected the One who claimed to be Him, so, since you cannot go back in time, it is apparent you have missed this prophecy. That would mean YHWH failed, but we know He does not.

 

   Next I would draw your attention to the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. Since that time, for over2000 years, your Rabbis have been unable to do anything for you for the forgiveness of sin. You have no way to truly repent in the way which YHWH commanded you to do. Please notice this prophecy of this time as well.

 

Hosea 3:4

For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim

 

   This is huge. For over 1900 years there has been no provision for sin for the Jew or the entire world! How could that be? It would mean that YHWH either failed or no longer loves His people. Neither of those statements are true. The only way this is reconciled is the fact that Jesus was the final sacrifice for all. That's why 2000 years have passed without the Old Testament provision for sin to be available, because the Messiah did come as prophesied, and the Jews missed it. Isaiah prophesied that as well.

Isaiah 8:14

And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

 

   Paul taught us this as well:

 

1st Corinthians 1:22-23

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

 

   So what about the last of the 70 weeks you say? Shouldn't it have come to pass then? Not if you follow Jesus as your Messiah, because you would know what He said about these times.

 

Luke 21:24

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

   The 70th week is postponed during this time of the Gentiles. The Jews rejected their own and salvation became available for all, Jew and Gentile alike. You, as a Jew reading this, can correct the error of your ways and those before you. It's not too late. There is no salvation under any other name than Jesus Christ. As for the conclusion of the 70th week, it will be too late as well. When will that be? Daniel's description of the 70th week, which remember is seven years, is exactly how long the Tribulation is.

Dear Friends;

Although the topic of "Salvation" may not seem related to Kabbalah, it has been broght up. This may help answer some of your questions.

There is no concept of 'salvation' in Judaism, the way you find in Christianity. Jews do not believe in 'original sin'. Rather, we believe that all humans are born pure and innocent, thus we do not need to be 'saved'.  G-d told us that parent and child shall not be held accountable for each other's sins, but each person is responsible for his own.

Judaism says that all righteous souls will reach 'heaven', and all humans are equally G-d's children.

Therefore, as G-d taught us in the Tanach; repent (Hebrew word for "repent" means to turn, or return) and be saved. The Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, is when all pray toether for His acceptance of our return/repentance to Him. But, and a big but in Judaism, a person is required to repent whenever he can-daily, even- and be saved.

The follishness for the Greeks was how can  a person do your job for you, if even G-d requires it of you? Thus, each person is still required to repent whenever the sins he has commeneted are known to him.

Or, why say "excuse me"?

Shalom;

Yechiel

I've been looking for an original sin
One with a twist and a bit of a spin
And since I've done all the old ones
Till they've all been done in
Now I'm just looking
And I'm gone with the wind
Endlessly searching for an original sin

You can dance forever
You've got a fire in your feet
But will it ever be enough
You know that it'll never be enough
And you can fly and never land
And never need to sleep
But will it ever be enough
You know that it'll never be enough
It's not enough to make the nightmares go away
It's not enough to make the tears run dry
And who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men today
It's a city of shadow
It's a city of lies
It's a city of secrets
It's a city of crime- Jim Steinman

Judaism says that all righteous souls will reach 'heaven', and all humans are equally G-d's children. Christianity teaches that none are righteous when standing on their own merits, but that righteousness is imparted from GOD. Christianity teaches that we are all GOD's children.

a person is required to repent whenever he can-daily, even- and be saved. Christianity appears to teach differing things, depending upon who one reads. AA teaches that, when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. My personal belief is that intellectual assent to the Gospel message is not tantamount to being saved. The NT teaches that even the demons believe. The Greek for repent is metanoia, a change of mind. The question that I must ask is how does someone turn from a thot/deed, how does one change one's mind about the same, and there is no change in behavior? I have little trouble with the NT teaching of salvation by grace, but if I do not see a changed life, a life reflecting the desire to be more GODly, then I have to doubt that anything resembling a desire to live as GOD would want, exists. Works do not save, but are the expression of a life aligned with GOD.

I would like to think that we are on the same page, even if not the same paragraph.

Shalom,

Jay

Ol' Yeddar. The question that I must ask is how does someone turn from a thot/deed, how does one change one's mind about the same,




Answer: You don't. It's the Holy Spirit of God in you that you receive when you believe in Jesus Christ and repent of your sins. It's the Holy Spirit in you that does the work.(changes one's mind)

You in Christ,(spiritually) and Christ in you.(changes one's mind) Man can not do anything. It is a gift of God. It's the work of the Holy Spirit that calls you to Christ. Man can not go to God on his own. If he could there would have been no need for Christ to die on the Cross so we could have a way back to God.

You are on the right page with Jesus Christ.  Simply put, God calls you to Christ through hearing His word. It's through Jesus Christ that you recieve the Holy Spirit of God.


God wishes to save everyone, that's why Jesus died on the Cross so everyone "could be saved". However, some will not believe when they hear Gods word.  Not everyone will be saved and go to heaven on judgment day.




Ol' Yeddar   I've been looking for an original sin.

Answer: The original sin was when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden.

Are the Jews a united people for the achievement of a world messiahship?

Answer — They most certainly are not! They are guilty of quite as much racial discontent, brawling, and general psychopathy among themselves as against the Gentiles. And this state of things has always been true. From the return from the Captivity, down to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus and the scattering of the Jews throughout the nations of the earth, the average length of reign of the Jewish kings — and one Jewish queen, Alexandria — was no longer than two years. Jews can't agree on rulers, even among themselves. Yet they think themselves capable of ruling all the other nations, comprising millions upon millions of Gentiles. The perpetual cry of their leaders, from Rabbi Ashe to Rabbi Wise, has forever been: "Stop your fighting and get together!" But the Jew can't "get together," not even with his own breed. The phobia of "being different" has bitten into him too deeply. The only thing that really drives the Jews into any sort of unity is persecution or violence directed against all classes of them as a people. Then they coalesce like sheep in a fold, all packed together and wailing to high heaven — only sheep don't wail. Only Jews wail. And how they wail!