Can you forgive?

Forgiveness takes three forms: dismissal, absolution, reconciliation. 

We have heard lots of hard words in the last weeks about Islam.  I admit to my share of them.  The thing is, I speak of a grievance that others suffered in my care, not for the injuries that I suffered.  Last, I speak for those who come after us, who must abide the terms of forgiveness that we strike in the present.

We all have grievances to address.  Some are more serious than others, some were inflicted over a greater length of time, and some by more than one person.  In some cases, the wrongs we suffered are only those of divergent principles of living, which cause the least valuable wrongs of all.

Regardless these numberless wrongs, it is on us to find a way to right them.

Dismissal; the lowest form of forgiveness.

The term, forgiveness, barely applies to dismissal, but in some cases, it is the only form that still applies.  Here we simply charge off the wrongs we have suffered as an uncollectible bad debt and leave the collection to God.  It may be the only forgiveness possible for a person who has passed away, leaving irreparable damages in their wake, and no means to remedy these wrongs.

We might say, "This person has done me irreparable wrong.  I give it to God.  let God deal out justice and I want never to hear of it or this person again."

 

Absolution: where forgiveness begins.

It is one thing to sneeze on another person, and another to destroy the life of someone in your family whom you hold priceless above your own life.  Here we consider motive, rationale, and effect. 

What sort of person was offended, which could have brought on a bad situation that only got worse constantly?  Escalating hostilities can have an ugly outcome. 

What was the offense?  How did it bear directly on their lives (if in fact it did)? 

What was the reprisal?  How did it bear directly on your life (if in fact it did)?

Who else was involved?  Were there torts of outrage, defamation of character, or tangible damages?

Legal action aside, we can see that no human willingly resorts to a hateful act unless something or someone else manipulates it. 

Finding a common ground with an implacable enemy and a way to get back on good working relations may be difficult but it is worth it. 

We might say, "We have something in common.  Let's dismiss smaller issues in favor of greater issues."

 

Reconciliation: God's way of forgiving.

Okay, the battle still rages and very literal bullets are still in the air, combat casualties mount and the two opposing Generals still seem intent on grabbing land no matter the cost or loss.  There is more than pride at stake: succeeding generations will profit or lose from the outcome of this military engagement.

Then, without appreciable warning, both Generals get notice to stand down: a political accord has been reached but cannonshells are still in the air, allies are moving in a quarter million implacable troops, and snipers still have the enemy in their cross hairs.  The battle is still in question militarily but not politically.

Okay, General Eisenhower, how do you accept surrender from General Goebbels?  That situation was very real in the 1941-1945 minor unpleasantness.

Can Germans tolerate American combat engineers in their buildeings, defusing bombs that didn't go off -- in their homes?  Can Sergeant Goldstein overlook the fact that his grandfather died in Belzen and disarm a weapon that drove Germany to its knees?

Such is the burden of reconciliation.  Germans who spoke English worked beside Americans who spoke German in the ruins of Berlin, Danzig, and 107 other cities.

Germans who spoke English worked with Britons who spoke German defusing V-1 Buzz Bombs still in London and Southampton.

We might say, "We are both exhausted freom war.  If we don't put this foolishness behind us, we are all doomed."

 

The lessons of forgiveness are hardly in the past. 

 

Can we forgive the religion that put Mohammed Atta -- and many like him -- to the task of the greatest provocation to war in American history Pearl Harbor included?

If so, what terms of forgiveness would you ask?  Of whom would you ask them?  What would you offer in return (if anything)?  Why?

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Best Answer

Forgiveness is a two way street.  If the person you hope to forgive is hateful, deranged, and bitter (like Physicalist) then there is no reason at all to let your guard down.

Anyone with a conscience and clarity of thought will reconcile with virtually anyone once the cause for hostility has been resolved.  Physicalist just proved again that atheists are absolutely unforgiving hence absolutely unforgivable.

Atheists have always been, and must always remain, bloody persecutors and that is because atheists cannot understand forgiveness in any form.  Such narrow minded bigotry is pure ignorance of the lowest variety.

Leftists haven't been right yet -- about anyone or anything.

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I can forgive anything. I've learned that not forgiving only hurts me and holds me back. That doesn't mean that I have to like the people I forgive, or that I won't pray for them.

As far as Muslims, I think there are a great many Muslims in the world who are great people, just like you and I, and only want to live in peace. I also think there are a lot of extremists who cause the rest of the world to hate ALL Muslims.

If you ask something in return for your forgiveness, then it isn't true forgiveness of any kind. You don't forgive someone to make them feel better or feel worse. You forgive to heal your own heart.

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, then that makes me a burning truck filled with TNT hurtling through a rocket fuel depot.

Forgiveness is too easy. I can be better than god. Why kiss up and grovel before a so-called supreme being and make an ass of yourself. Have some self esteem and recognize the competence of humans to resolve their own problems. I had wanted a bike as a kid; when I could not afford it, I decided to steal a bike and ask for forgiveness. That is why the prisons and probation roles are filled with christians who believe they will be forgiven with their own explanation and excuses for perpetrating crimes. I can do better than that. I can do better than the Nazi Christians who threw Jews in the ovens because they were Christ killers. Put the foolishness of religion behind you. Focus on morality rather than committing crimes and forgiveness from some imagined invisible sky-god. 

Extraordinarily claims require extraordinary evidence. The god hypothesis has failed for lack of evidence.. Public policy should be informed by science and pragmatism rather than theology and religious dogma.

Ah, but don't you see? Those are the people that need forgiveness and prayers the most. And, I am, above all, always a gentleman. I refuse to be rude to anybody, no matter the provocation. Rudeness, anger, name calling, those things end a conversation, a discussion, a debate. Calm, reasoned behavior makes one able to rise above anything.

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, then that makes me a burning truck filled with TNT hurtling through a rocket fuel depot.

How can it be appropriate for a god to forgive someone when the victims don't care to do it? That makes the god of the Bible arrogant and deliberately indifferent to victims. There is no hate on my part. Your own god seems to hate victims. 

 

Bonestructure is a gentleman and others add bigotry to this thread. They can't seem to go beyond their childhood indoctrination in dogma and ritual and superstition. 

Extraordinarily claims require extraordinary evidence. The god hypothesis has failed for lack of evidence.. Public policy should be informed by science and pragmatism rather than theology and religious dogma.

Is this a lecture or a question?  Learn to walk free of guilt with the knowledge that Jesus the Christ has forgiven all past sins and don't condem others for their short comings and you need not ask or give forgiveness.  Only Jesus the Christ can truly forgive.

One can search every facet of the Universe, but unless one carries that which one is searching for with them, they find it not.

I can forgive anything. I've learned that unforgiving only hurts me and holds me back. Unforgiveness is a burden in your heart. Forgive and forget thats the Lord's request

I don't have much trouble forgiving people who did me wrong.  Lots of times it is just an insult and that don't make nothing.  A punch in the face is nothing a man can't handle.  A kick in the guts might put me in a fighting mood, cause that's a real hurt.

The wrongs I have trouble forgiving are the loss of my job cause some lying atheist put out the word I'm involved with some right wing terrorist group.  Thar sort of dirty trick can end your career real fast.  If you don't have a job, you go hungry.  Unemployment don't help much.

All atheists want you to hate them cause they are dangerous bigots and think that if they can make you hate them enough, they can use that to control you.

Atheists do that all the time and then deny it.  It is on purpose, and they took training how to cause hate.  It is called being a leftist liberal.  That's where their usefulness ends period.  That is about all any atheist ever did. 

They prove every day they don't want anyone to be on talking terms and that is why atheists always stir up hate any way they can.

That is about all any atheist ever did.  Physicalist proved that a thousand times.  Yeah, all atheists are that way and they are stupid enough to be proud of being that petty, cheap, and mean.

There ain't much to respect about that sort of creep.

There are two kinds of people in the world. There are sane people, and crazy people, who are driving the sane people crazy.

Physicalist

First of all, I do not have multiple postings.  I have many followers . . . You have this arrogant figure named god that places itself above the victims. That is so divine right?

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I'm no psychiatrist but I have dealt with mentally ill people.  Delusions of deity can be the first sign that you are dealing with a truly dangerous atheist. 

They cannot forgive anyone who doesn't pander to their delusion and it gets nasty very quickly.  It can escalate from there to physical violence. 

Most of the time people who suffer delusions are pretty harmless.  Not these guys.  People who think that they are God (or as good as God) really do have nasty tempers.  They aren't particularly strong or able people, so they pick on smaller or weaker people than themselves.  That puts lots of people in the hospital.

It gets worse.  People who have these grandiose delusions never feel any guilt or remorse for having traumatized, injured, or killed, other people.  Rules that society lives by simply don't exist for these people.  If you tell them that it is against the law to hurt kids, they will only say that they disregard the law completely.  They feel like they are above the law and all accountability.

Dealing with people who suffer these delusions is always going to be extremely difficult because they can't understand that they are subject to the same rules as everyone else, and if you tell them the truth, they just will not listen to it.

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