Discuss LadyE's answer to: What's Your Take on Baptism of the Dead?

What you need to do is learn scripture from God and not man. Pray for God to open your eyes.


All Israel Shall Be Saved?


Romans 11:26 says, "And so all Israel will be saved." What does this mean?

Obviously, it doesn't mean every Jew will be saved. In fact, the same chapter says God hopes to "save some of them" (vs. 14). Judas was a Jew, yet we know he will be lost for betraying Christ. Jesus called him, "the son of perdition" (John 17:12). Jesus told many Jews, "If you do not believe I am He [the Messiah], you will die in your sins" (John 8:24). Not every Jew believes in Jesus Christ, thus many will "die in their sins" and be lost.

Many Christians today interpret Romans 11:26 as applying to the end of the seven-year tribulation when Jesus appears in the clouds at His Second Coming. In other words, they don't apply the verse to all Jews throughout history, but only to "all Jews" who are alive at the end. Supposedly, at the end of the tribulation, all remaining Jews in Israel will look up, see Christ coming in the clouds, realize He is the true Messiah, believe in Him, and thus "All Israel will be saved."

This is a false teaching, as I will attempt to show.

   1. First, the context of Romans 11 is not the Second Coming.
   2. "There is no partiality with God" (Romans 2:5-11). It would be an act of partiality to save "all Jews" at the end, but not "all Jews" in history. The idea is, "When all final Jews see Christ coming in the clouds, then they will believe." But this would give those final Jews a supposedly irresistible opportunity to believe in Jesus Christ which past Jews have not had. Nor would this be fair to "all Gentiles" living at the end. Why would God save all Jews at the end but not all Gentiles? All Gentiles will see Jesus coming just like all Jews.
   3. When Christ finally appears in the clouds, IT'S TOO LATE TO BELIEVE IN HIM. Rev. 22:11,12 says that before He comes in the clouds, all decisions have already been made. Jesus said it will be like Noah's day (Mat. 24:37-39). In Noah's day the door of the ark closed before the flood came (Gen. 7:16). When the flood came, it was too late. To save all Jews AT THE SECOND COMING would be like saving all those outside the ark WHEN THE RAIN STARTED FALLING.
   4. When Jesus comes in the clouds, this is the time of judgment upon ALL unbelievers who don't know God nor obey the gospel (2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14,15).

So what does this mean, "All Israel shall be saved"? First of all, Romans 9:6 says there are two Israels. one is an Israel according to the flesh (Romans 9:3,4) and the other is the Israel of God (Galatians 6:14-16). The Israel of God is composed of both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:29). Gentiles who believe are grafted in. They become part of the "same body" with believing Jews (Eph. 3:6). Paul calls this unity of believing Jews and Gentiles, "the mystery of Christ" (Eph. 3:4).

The immediate context of Romans 11:26 is vs. 25. When "the fullness of the Gentiles has come in," then "all Israel will be saved." Or, to be exact, "And so all Israel will be saved." In other words, the coming in of the fullness or total number of the Gentiles results in "all Israel" being saved. Paul's idea seems to be that when all Gentiles (totally, throughout history) have come in, that is, have been grafted into the Vine, they, uniting with all Jews who have become believers, will form the total number of the saved. Paul also reveals that when Gentiles come in, God can use this to motivate some Jews to believe (verses 11 & 14). Vs. 25 calls this whole thing, "this mystery," which we have already proven to be the "mystery" of both Jews and Gentiles being united in one body through Christ (Eph. 3:4,6). Vs. 27 says all are saved because Christ takes away their sins through His covenant, which must be the New Covenant, which applies to all believers, Jew and Gentile. Thus the "all Israel" that is saved is the total group of believing Gentiles and Jews combined.

The "all Israel that is saved" does not apply to all Jews throughout history, nor can it apply to a select favored group who become instant believers when Jesus Christ comes crashing down through the sky. By that time, it is too late to believe. [The End]

Anonymous -- I never said anything about dead Jews.  Don't know where you got that from.  The dead are dead, that's it. 

You are more Ignorant now that you were when you posted as gypskey.

Dear LadyE;

First of all, I do pray for all, as those of us wo are with G-d want love and respect, not the balarny we havev seen here. I posted this for AC, to see if maybe he can become aware that he is not even in the ball park, on our verious views.

>>> Dear AC;

Why is it so hard for you to accept that G-d gave us different instructions than you all, and a part of them is that we cannot accept your way.

Is it only arrogance, or something more sinister in you, that you cannot accept G-d, as He says He is, for us.

You also tell many lies about us and about Christianity, as calling someone, an avowed Cristian, but who disagrees with you "satan". Satan only means "adversary", thus, you are G-d's and the Jewish people's Satan. Repent.

Yechiel<<<

I know it is a waste of time to deal with these closed minded persons, but many who do not post read these posts, and they deserve some reason in what they read, not just the bigotry we have from these persons.

AC, in the above comment, proved this, again. But maybe, like those who have such a low opinin of themselves, has to try to drag someone down.

As I have a good knowledge of our faiths, although still learning, all he gets from me is pity. Now, to communicate with reasonable, G-d Fearing people like you, Njoy, Mike, Bonestructure and ChrisKat.

Shalom, looking for more communication;

Yechiel

Yechielshlipshon -- Thank you very much for responding to AC.  That last comment from him is so unChristian.  Don't even know who "gypsey" is.

Matthew 24:15-16 ...'When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.'

The abomination of desolation affects every Christian on this earth, so abominationit's an important issue to study and understand. The Bible clearly defines that it is the abominations done by God's very own people that causes desolation. Through their abominations, which are usually Pagan traditions, God brings down judgment upon His people by raising up a nation to cause desolation. So let's confirm from the Bible who it is that commits these abominations:

Jeremiah 4:1 ...'If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.'

Jeremiah 7:30 ...'For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.'

Ezekiel 6:11 ...'Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.'

Ezekiel 8:6 ...'He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.'

It is God's own people that have turned aside from Him and committed abominations in His sight, and have become a harlot ... Ezekiel 16:32,35 ...'But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD.' ... A woman in Bible prophecy represents God's people. A pure woman would be those who obey God and keep all His ways, and a harlot woman would be those who have turned aside from God and gone in the way of the heathen, practicing Pagan traditions. And as a result of these abominations that God's people commit, desolation is brought upon them and their land as the following Bible verses confirm:

Jeremiah 9:11 ...'And I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant.'

Jeremiah 18:15-16 ...'Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up; To make their land desolate, and a perpetual hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished, and wag his head.'

Micah 7:13 ...'Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.'

Ezekiel 33:29 ...'Then shall they know that I am the LORD, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their abominations which they have committed.'

AC -- I know about the desolation, the prophesies of God, etc.  But your response remains very unChristian.  I will not read anything you write.  You know why?  Because "if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  If I have the gift of prohecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I gain nothing".  1 Corinthians 13: 1-3. So far I see you have knowledge, but no love.   Your words are empty.

all the great artisis were christians & jewish

they have open minds & no secrets to hide

look at the louvre and vatican

artists beg to hang their work in either place

never charge a penny

i love the sistine chapel creation of adam

beautifully done and soooooooooooo christian

bare and beautiful

powerful as love itself

God made us naked in the garden of eden

this was not an accident

naked people can feel the other one tell the truth or lie

clothing just conceals lies

there is something very dishonest about this misreading of scripture

a false prophet clothed in armor of anonymity

what evil does he conceal

why does he conceal it

why does he think we can't pick it up instantly